Well I agree that her rights should not be completly taken away and these people due get power hungry, but come on. I accidentally left a butter knife in my carry on luggage. Who does that?

It’s called Napoleanic Law, the stuff of Banana
Republics.

@E.S. Who leaves a butter knife in her carry on? Why a derange 57 year old chaperone of course.

I really don’t know why people accept this kind of treatment. A technicality now makes you a terrorist suspect. She will carry this for the rest of her life. And the really nice point is that from that moment on government accountability simply stops:
- no receipt for confiscated goods
- no case number, no paper work
- no more rights, as of there and then. Due process not required.

Stalin and Hitler are scoffing at George Walker with envy and at the same time they are applauding him because this is -exactly- how they would have done it.

I always wonder why people assumed we had any rights to begin with?

we had allowances made by the governemnt, their taking them away.

we can whine about it all day long, report on it, talk about it till we’re blue in the face… and they will always say “sorry” or “thats not whats happening”. the whole time taking away more allowances.

until actual uprising occurs, this is how it will continue. and armed uprising won’t happen because the majority wil always be kept complaicent with low interest rates and juicy mcdonalds burgers.

cattle will moo all the way to the slaughterhouse.

Americans cheered after 9-11 as strict anti-terror laws were passed. Now all the government has to do is redefine who is a terrorist and they have a whole new weapon in their arsenal against their citizens.

I predict that it will start with street gangs and work its way down to protesters.

I’m sorry, but whoever wrote this is an idiot. It sounds like there was a screener who wasn’t following TSA protocols (I used to be a screener, so I know) and got power hungry. Ok. I get that.

But here’s the thing:
-She will NOT be considered a terrorist from here on out unless she started threatening people
-She WAS breaking the law, and there IS a $500 fine. The fine is is almost NEVER enforced unless someone gets violent or is scaring other passengers.
-TSA does NOT confiscate any items. The woman had two options: Voluntarily leave the knife behind (therefore it was not confiscated) OR don’t go through the checkpoint. It’s easy. To demand a receipt is asinine for something she was literally throwing away.

Do I like TSA? No. Do I think they are there to scare us more than help us? Yes. But this story is just stupid.

@Denny

Juicy McDonald’s Burgers!!! That’s hilarious!!

“And I said what about my constitutional rights? And they said ‘not at this point … you don’t have any’.”…

This story has been submitted to Stirrdup. If it can generate enough interest, it will make it to the main page….

She had the butter knife because she was making peanut butter sandwiches for the 37 kids she was chaperoning. She actually used three knives, but misplaced one while packing. Upon arriving at the security screening, she reported that there was a butter knife in her luggage, but that she couldn’t find it. TSA overreacted and didn’t act like human beings. Psycho, they are.

so if we’re tired of out constitutional rights being trampled on, why are we putting up with it? bitching on the internet won’t help. write your senator.

@1: It’s a butter knife fercrysakes, a small, completely curved, no sharp-points implement for slicing little squares of butter off a stick. It’s not a boxcutter or razor blade or anything that could be used to hijack a plane. More insanity brought to you from the Homeland Insecurity Dept.

“TSA does NOT confiscate any items. The woman had two options: Voluntarily leave the knife behind (therefore it was not confiscated) OR don’t go through the checkpoint. It’s easy. To demand a receipt is asinine for something she was literally throwing away.”

Thats a ridiculous comment, especially for someone who has been on the inside. You know for a fact that TSA or its employees end up with all the stuff people “voluntarily throw away.” Christ, I’ve seen pictures of the warehouses. Confiscation is not the point anyway, as I believe the Constitution states citizens cannot be “deprived of property” without compensation and due process, which this woman clearly was.

@Jeffery

it’s funny because it’s true.

and it’s sad because it’s true.

how long have “watchdog” organizations, independant media, and now bloggers been showing more and more evidence of goverment abuse & corruption? and look at all the good that’s come from it… wait…

bush is still president…
we’re still at war with iraq…

we’re trying to bully mascow…
our highways are still a police state…
law enforcemnt officials are still doing whatever they want…

we just moo and keep walking to the butcher.

why? why would americans tolerate these atrocities. well… ask yourself this, if you find what happened in this article, or any other article of rights abuse you have read over the past few years, what did you do about it? did you even remember it clearly the next day? the next week? did you moniter to find out about when changes were occuring in the situation? did you demand restitution of the injured parties with the threat of force? and pay close attention to wait for it to happen?

no.

otherwise you’d be in jail. free thinking is a dangerous commodity in the modern world.

what tools do we have to influence the government?
our ability to vote? so once a year we can pick the less worse of the bunch of loosers we’re presented with as options? that’s our control over how we are ruled.

and even then the odds of educated decisions with all the media spinn applied to our information sources are 100:1.

so in the end we pick the guy with the nicest smile and hope it was the right choice.

in the mean time our children learn apathy, our officials learn new methods of control, and the farmer gets his beef.

moo!

“so if we’re tired of out constitutional rights being trampled on, why are we putting up with it? bitching on the internet won’t help. write your senator.”

Ha! Thanks, that was hilarious.

Things will change when enough people get angry enough for mass civil disobedience. Writing your senator is probably less effective than bitching on the internet… at least other people will read it on the internet.

i make no assumption as to the nationality of this woman, but i can tell you that if she were from the middle east, this would have probably been on the evening news. “the perfect disguise” an older woman chaperoning a school event.
I refuse to believe that TSA “throws out” rather than inventories every single little nail file and
butter knife. bombs? real weapons? probably. but who “forgets” a butter knife in their carry on? having to walk barefoot on
the slimy tile floor between the security entry and the end of the xray belt isn’t enough. each time something innovative happens in the bomber world, TSA makes a new standard in their operating procedure, but the truth is, who is going to try the shoe bomb again? NO ONE! Just like this story. who is going to hold up a plane with a butter knife? Rather than putting money into researching how to prevent attacks, they make sure old ones aren’t repeated. seems like a perfect tool for misdirection. sorry i’m all over the place, this one’s a doozie.

@doug Start at street gangs work its way to protesters? I’d say the other way around. In the UK protesters are already being arrested under terrorism laws just for demonstrating peacefully or heckling a government minister but street gangs are carrying on the same as ever.

denny…

if you have soulseek, i’m RandolphScott

The Constitution does not apply to the average citizen. We the people does not mean everbody living in the U.S. So when people complain about losing their Constitutional rights they do not realize they never had any to begin with. The government in the U.S. is a terrorist unit by their own definition and the only way they will stop is if they are stopped. Not one person in the U.S. has the ‘balls’ to do what it is going to take to stop the government from doing whayever it wants to do. As long as the governement keeps their course of implementing change toward an ‘Orwellian Society’ one step at a time the sheeple will forget each freedom that is taken away as the next is taken from them. It’s inevitible. The people are slaves willingly and the government knows this and uses it to their advantage. Notice how gas prices rise until people throw a fit then the prices go down a few cents so the people shut up. Then the prices rise a few cents every month. This cycle happens with every freedom or liberty. They are being taken away. Again no one has the balls to stand up and fight and the government knows this. Just keep whining and the government keeps adding shackles and chains. It’s already too late.

A fine and a watch-list, so what? The government does that to me every time I park in the wrong spot.

Guess what, government has been growing for years — the only funny thing is when liberals choose to complain about it.

As much as I sympathize with Mrs. Beaman, I don’t think that the situation requires such an overdose of rhetoric. All drama aside, flying is a privilege that is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution … they were forward thinkers, just not that forward.

I guess the knife is where the TSA draws the line, and we all can agree that we must draw the line somewhere. Possibly it is too much to brand her as a terrorist … I would have simply decreed her as too stupid to fly … I worry about all those other lapses she might have , especially if I were the parent of one of the children she had taken responsibility for. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

If the story is true, I suggest one consider simply leaving the USA for good. It’s not worth having to live in fear of the state like that.

This story is not posted anywhere else on the internet as far as I can tell. It has the tone of b.s.

It needs to be substantiated before any real discussion can continue.

Disgusting!!

no, do not write your senator.

buy a gun. in fact buy several. then have your friends buy guns.

then organize, march on washington, and overthrow this god awful government.

trouble is, getting enough of us together because if we don’t have our shit together, we’ll be shot, beaten, and jailed, and then the evening news will report that a terrorist attack on the nation’s capital was thrawted.

Dumb old c*nt.

Americans are fucking stupid! The entire globe gives you a sarcastic “Thank you!” for re-electing Bush. Thanks for protesting the Patriot Act. Thanks for protesting the TSA. Thanks for fucking things up for the entire world. Great job!

I’m with you Colin.
V for Vendetta style.
Guns aren’t even necessary … if people would just stand up and march.

reloveution. libertarians unite.

How long before you have to ask permission to fly in advance? There is a growing number of people in this country who cannot fly because of this ignorant fascist bureaucracy in action; forever, no appeal, and you cannot even no why, or in fact even if you are on the list!

It will take a federal law suit or change in leadership to get some intelligence built into the airport screening system.

There’s a solution: Move to Europe.

I recently took a flight from Vienna, and accidentally left my Swiss Army Knife in my carry-on luggage. Not only was I not berated and degraded by police-state fascists, I was helpfully escorted to the security office and told I could pay 10 Euro’s and they would send the knife to me by post .. they even said “its a nice knife, you probably want it back, here’s how you do that” .. and 3 days after my trip, it arrived safely in the mail.

The fact is: the United States has been taken over by fascists who want nothing more than to terrorize and degrade the population, and airports are a pretty good place to do that, with a fully captive, supplicant audience .. either that audience, the American people, do something about it, or it gets worse and worse from here on out ..

Just because your boss says it’s legal doesn’t mean it is.

Read the US Constitution yourself.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

From the 5th.

“nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

Sure, this can be changed. If we pass an amendment. But we have not. Their behavior is in direct violation of the US Constitution and they know it.

They do this to US citizen but let the Mexicans walk across the border and break our laws. Then we have to feed, cloth and house them!

Regarding the shoe checks…

Personally, I’m looking forward to what happens after a “pants bomber”, to be followed by the even more nefarious “thong bomb.” We’re already used to taking our belts off, how much harder will it be to pull our pants down? I know I won’t mind, as long as it’s all for the war on terror.

Seriously though, it’s scary what this government is doing.

We’ll maintain and further our diminished rights if Ron Paul is elected President in 2008.

This s happening because th majority of the people have allow it. Methodically, in a progressive fashion, Big Brother have become counselor, prosecutor, judge, and jury.
Still, most people deny it, accept it, or just dont care.

You have no choice but to “accept” this treatment.

The prevailing rail screams we don’t have to accept this BS.

I would posit that at this point in time we are truly state property and to engage in behavior that would illustrate our dissatisfaction of said treatment would only bring ruin and dismay upon a liberty-clutching citizen.

We have blasphemed our heritage of freedom.

Most of you leaving comments here (and the original poster) are complete retards.

Knives are not allowed on planes. Period. Every single person who is caught with a knife in their carry-on is going to say it was an accident, and how is the security screener going to tell the difference?

Do we let women over 50 bring knives onto airplanes? If so, then my recommendation to the next group of terrorists is to slip a knife into the bag of an unsuspecting older lady, wait for her to get through security, and then take it back so you can kill people with it.

These rules are in place for a reason, and it’s NOT HARD to follow them if you actually pay attention and use a minuscule amount of intelligent thought process.

I’d much rather have a bunch of ladies on a “watch list” than have ONE terrorist get away with something and injure even one passenger.

You need to realize that the majority of the population of the world is STUPID. The government is here to protect ALL of us, and that includes protecting us from other people’s stupidity and ignorance. You may have to arrive 30 minutes earlier to the airport than you used to… but you can also feel safer about getting on a plane.

If travelers can’t even have a decent sized shampoo container in their bag, what makes her think that just because she has 37 kids with her, she’s allowed to have a butterknife? I bet no one would be siding with her if she were a single, male Arab. Which is where the unfairness comes into play at its worst.

Anyone concerned about civil liberties should start reading about Ron Paul, who is running for president for the GOP. http://www.ronpaul2008.com

“I don’t remember the part of the Constitution that says your rights don’t apply in airports”
If you are a terrorist, you don’t have any constitutional rights. Aren’t those the new rules you voted for?

The story is posted at http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4153866.html. If you read the whole thing, it’s not as bad as wikiprotest’s edited story + editorial comments make it out. First, the TSA agent who said “you don’t have any constitutional rights” was just talking out of his ass. He was wrong and shouldn’t have made that statement. That said, TSA dose have the authority to take knives and issue fines. The agents may have been impolite (according to her) but I don’t think they did anything constitutionally wrong.

Michael Chertoff is the head of Depeartment of Homeland Security and FEMA, which is inclusive. His mother is Israeli. See, they build a wall in Israel so now we build a wall in the USA. Ask any European country, where immigration is very tightly controlled, ask them if a wall works. It might work in Israeli but in USA it is just expensive and unsightly PR for Israeli. Michael Chertoff’s cousin in Ben Chertoff who is the twenty five year old “senior editor” at Popular Mechanics magazine that put out the issue “debunking” the “conspiracy theories” such as there was no pancake collapse and that three building were demolished in New york City on September 11, 2001. Popular Mechanics has even put out a book on the topic authored by “The Editors.” I smell fish. Do you smell fish? If you Americans want to have your country ruled by Israeli influence, have your VP Cheney talk about the immediate threat of Iraq to “us” (he must be confusing USA with Israel) and watch three buildings blown up on your own soil and believe a US GOV fairy tale supported by Popular Mechanics magazine from the cousin of your own head of DHS/FEMA, so be it. It may also interest you to know that FEMA spends most of its money building underground control bunkers and spends very little of its money on disaster relief. Have a good day and enjoy the recent Communist takeover.

Absolutely ridiculous. As if this isn’t bad enough, try transporting your weapon with you when deploying as a military individual. You have paperwork signed by everyone and their brother, sister, father, and mother. Even better, see what they do when you act as a classified courier and don’t let them scan the container. They flip shit. It gets even better when you tell them that should they attempt to take it from you, you are authorized to use deadly force. Classic.

In 1989 I was pulled aside on a London to LAX flight for extra attention. A friend of mine had died in a terrorist bombing the year before, so in the beginning I didn’t mind at all.

However, when the screener dumped the contents of my bags on the table and then made ME pick them all up, I saw what was going on. I complained. His response: “Does that mean we can’t do it?”

That guy (I’m female; I 20 years old then) was deliberately baiting me. 18 years ago, this was happening.

The people who go to employers like the TSA will always be the puny harassers among us. The guy at SeaTac Airport who thinks that checking boarding passes against photo ID is a neat way to hit on girls: he’s a case in point. But now, these people have unchecked power. They can do anything they want. The airports are their playground; if there isn’t a written law that justifies what they’re doing they’ll make one up on the spot. They know that no one there will come to our defense. We and our property are completely at the mercy of people with 11th grade educations.

It doesn’t matter how early we arrive for flights or whether we go to the TSA website before we fly, etc., etc. They change restrictions at will and without notice, and we are always in the wrong when they do. Sorry, this is no longer about protecting us when we fly. It’s about seeing how much control we will accept.

I do not feel safe when I fly. I feel tired and angry, in part because I know how ineffective these exercises are against real terrorists. No amount of X-ray screening or liquid restrictions will stop them. The one who seeks to take a life is always at least a step ahead of the army that seeks to protect us. This is just the way things are.

Is it time to fight back? I think it is.

who packs untensils? seriously thats why god invented plastic picnic wares.

it sucks it happened like that but it could have been avoided easily.

she’s not a terrorist just a moron.

People always get these things blown out of proportion. She made a serious mistake in attempting to board a plane with a knife, accidental or otherwise and her age or status as a teacher has nothing to do with the situation. However that does not grant the TSA the right to shout accusations and claim she is a terrorist. They can only submit the paperwork of what happened to the feds who will make that determination.

Unfortunately, America is turning into a “guilty first and ask questions later” country, where the smallest misstep in obeying authority figures (who routinely overstep their authority without consequences) results in loss of freedoms without any means of redress. I find it quite plausible that she will be listed on the terrorist watch list, which means unending hassles every time she tries to fly.. of course she can ask the government to revisit her case and remove her from the list, however I have never heard of anyone being successful in doing so.

a plastic knive would have been met with the same reaction.

Yea, basically what it comes down to, is that if she hadn’t had the knife in the first place, it would not have been a big deal at all and none of this would have happened. There should be some accountability among these guys to make sure that they are not abusing their power

Benjamin Franklin said it best.

“He/She who chooses to give up liberty for security deserves to have neither”

An illegal income tax, a private corporation that controls our money supply called the Federal Reserve and now the patriot act.

Have we forgotten what it is to be American?????

Wake up!

A terrorist with a butter knife. LOL (not AK47)

Lisa

This is to Chris 06.19.07 @ 9:39 am, you wrote;

“The government is here to protect ALL of us, and that includes protecting us from other people’s stupidity and ignorance.”

I ask you “Who’s gonna protect YOU from the Government?”

The time for the people to rise is now!

Please take some time and look at the 2008 Presidential candidate Ron Paul.

Who Is Ron Paul?

Dr. Paul is the leading advocate for freedom in our nation’s capital. As a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, Dr. Paul tirelessly works for limited constitutional government, low taxes, free markets, and a return to sound monetary policies. He is known among his congressional colleagues and his constituents for his consistent voting record. Dr. Paul never votes for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution. In the words of former Treasury Secretary William Simon, Dr. Paul is the “one exception to the Gang of 535″ on Capitol Hill.

http://www.myspace.com/RonPaul2008

THE REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN - JOIN US!

“Mass civil disobedience” BINGO

“You need to realize that the majority of the population of the world is STUPID. The government is here to protect ALL of us, and that includes protecting us from other people’s stupidity and ignorance. You may have to arrive 30 minutes earlier to the airport than you used to… but you can also feel safer about getting on a plane.”
Chris, that “stupid” part includes you and the government, including the TSA. So maybe, just maybe, the government and the TSA do really stupid things???

Are these T.S.A. agents able to think critically and analyze particular situations such as these? How much time and energy is wasted chasing passengers with a forgotten butter knife, a few ounces of tap water in a sippy cup and other ridiculous “terrorist” threats. You ended the post with the question how much more are we going to stand. I would like to know what can be done.

These rules are ridiculous… Even prisons aren’t safe, but DHS wants to search the hell out of us? C’mon, whats to stop someone from snapping a music CD in half and wrapping it up in clothing to make a cheap shank? NOTHING! My point is this, if prisoners can be so creative, then so can terrorists. Make better foreign policies.

@ the first comment.

I’ve got a letter opener that a hell of a lot more knife like than a butter knife.
I usually have almost half a loaf of bread, some guava jam and surprisingly sharp plastic knife and a butter knife in my briefcase most days for snacking before meetings.

On casual fridays my texas belt buckle looks like a lethal weapon.

Aw work we make darts out of papermate pens sliced at an angle, one of those might be in my laptop bag by accident. Or a really sharp pencil!

I can keep going but I think you get my point.

@Doug

what world do you live in?
Street gangs are the gods of the ghetto and they have no interest(or knowlege) in anything the government is doing.

Meanwhile in predominately white middle america, peaceful protesters are having the dogs put on them for walking down main street in silence holding up signs.

I’d also like to mention that my nephew and his friends have many times made the equivalent of a home made rocket launcher/bazooka out of hardware supplies and junk found around the house, school, local dump (they watch a lot of mythbusters and have every episode of junkyard wars on their computers).
Flying around as much as I do, it dawned on me one day that someone not interested in escaping or even staying alive after attacking the US could easily build a makeshift rocket propelled device and get close enough to the landing strip at many airports to actually do some damage.

And in tourist destinations it’s even easier.
On a recent trip to the caribbean there was a road that passed right under where the planes make their final descent. Anyone could get their timing right to drive under a plane full of americans just as it’s landing and get off enough shots to do some damage. On takeoff it’s even worse, there were abandoned towers where anyone could set up a sniping post and take out the pilots as soon as the wheels leave the ground.

If you think it’s bad now wait till Chertoff controls everything just like Albert Speer did for Hitler when Bush enacts.. HSPD-20 and NSPD-51..!

They’re initiating a full Dictatorship and this abuse will be everywhere..

That’s why KBR is building detention camps and our Congress and Senate are allowing this Treason and plot to overthrow our very system..

Jefferson said: “Ours is not a system based upon Trust but one of Suspicion..!

Why are we trusting these liars criminals and losers..?

And they wonder why we hate us?

i still dont see how some skin arabs hijacked a plane with just a box cutter. if you have a box cutter and you’re threatening my life, you might want to reassess your plan.

This is a classic “category problem” — a case of confused thinking. Those who think the passenger was in the wrong say, “Well she was carrying a knife, what did she expect?” But they are taking a term “knife” and deriving meaning from it in a too-literal, simple-minded way. The actual object in question — a “butter knife” — could more accurately be labeled a “smooth, rounded metal object that could usefully part a soft pile of congealed fat, but not break one’s skin.”

When you differentiate words and categories in that way, it is clear that the passenger was, at worst, a bit forgetful. But certainly not a terrorist.

Me, I have to agree with the comments of those who say the TSA has gone far overboard — heaps of senseless rules that will deter on the dumbest terrorist

Have you been voting for Republicans and Democrats for the last forty years? Well, if you have, serves you right. Don’t complain. You’ve been asking for it.

I forgot a 6″ hunting knife in my carry on, and the idiots didn’t even notice it. I didn’t realize I had taken it for both legs of the trip until I got home. This was post-9-11 (to be clear).

This also from the article that appears left out above:

“TSA recognizes that most passengers who carry prohibited items do so without any ill intent. TSA does not impose fines on the vast number of passengers who inadvertently carry prohibited items. Dealing with any prohibited item, however, adds time to the screening process both for the traveler who brought the item and for other travelers as well.”

It’s quite possible that this TSA officer was saying these things to just scare her. Not acceptable either, but it also doesn’t mean she will be labeled a terrorist for life as state above.

Let’s wait for outcome of this episode before arriving at the conclusion that because a TSA officer said something inappropriate that due process has been totally ignored.

I think it would be a good idea if we knew what the TSA process is when confiscating illegal items carried through a security checkpoint (whether intenional or not).

Are they suppose to give receipts to everyone? Like if I have some C4 and they confiscate it, will they give me a receipt>

It was also a “5 1/2 inch bread knife”. How different (since we don’t have a photo) is this to a butter knife?

Not trying to defend the TSA. Just saying most folks here are crying foul based on an article without investigating all of the facts.

This lady was wrong. It was unintentional. The TSA has the leeway to not do a thing about this. One TSA officer’s comments does not make it gospel. Their ability to impose sanctions on a violator is partly based on attitude of violator at the time of an incident.

It’s quite possible the officer’s comments were precipitated by the attitude of this women.

Again, not defending the TSA. I’ve already flown 50K miles this year and had my fill of some of their lunacy.

Just saying everyone needs to look at all sides and stop thinking everyone’s rights have been violated and taken away without the full revelation of all the facts.

Overthrow the government. We don’t have a constitution anymore anyway!! And they need to quit interfering with the Real IRA. Get them a few arms and the Brits will all be carried out of Ulster and Ireland will finally be reunited!!

Last time I checked, doesn’t she have to be CONVICTED before a felony can be placed on her record? As in, A JUDGE?

Solution: Do not fly in the US until the crap stops. Simply leave TSA standing there waiting for people to search. The airlines will cry so loud that the government will change the rules. The amount of money not being spent will get even the governments attention. Being an expat, I go to thailand or other places. Instead of 4 times a year in the US, it is one now. And, it may decrease….

Never take a US carrier if you must fly as it will cause loss of revenue, which in turn causes the carriers to cry to the government. Follow the money…Grab them by their fiscal testicles, and their hearts and minds will surely follow…

Forget the cry of anti american practices. That is what the Government is doing to us. Cut the money! The attitude adjustment will follow quickly.

The war on terror is already over, Bin Laden has already won. The US is over-reacting to everything now and is scared out of it’s mind. Terrorists don’t have to do anything else but sit back and relax. The US is tearing itself apart in this terrorist hunt of theirs.

When did this happen? Because as of 11:43 PST on Wednesday 06/20/2007 butter knives are NOT prohibited in carry-on luggage, according to the TSA’s own website. http://www.tsa.gov has a comprehensive list what is and is not allowed in both carry-on and checked luggage. Knives are not allowed in carry-ons, except for plastic or round bladed butter knives.

This lady was held because of a butter knife, but this is specifically ALLOWED by the TSA. WTF??????????????????

Why is this blog called wikiprotest lol? there is nothing about a wiki on it?

@ Motorcycle Guy:

To make you ask questions…

Interesting little article. I’m thinking that the interpretation of butter knife/bread knife might be important here. A bread knife is sharp enough to cut bread. It is not a dull knife. It is “a 5 1/2 inch bread knife with a rounded tip and a serrated edge”. I’m thinking a serrated edge is pretty sharp.
Regarding confiscation the official policy is not likely confiscation but that the item’s owner gets to choose what to do with it. They can leave it in the garbage or not go on the plane. They choose. If they leave it in the “garbage” and someone picks it out why would that person need a receipt?

And people still wonder why I want to get the hell out of this country.

It’s obvious the terrorists have supressed the American people far more than they’d imagined in their wildest dreams. Maybe when Bush says “War on Terra” he means it how he says it. HE sure as hell doesn’t give a fuck about the We the People.

For the benefit of future viewers (StumbleUpon users perhaps?) because this post is fairly old:

There is something to be said for small posts like this. Some of you might think this is a stupid, pointless story that belongs on the back burner of civil rights priorities. However, this crap is exactly the kind of situation that is a microcosm of what is happening nationally.

Some of the comments are just ridiculous. It’s as if some of you did not even read the post or the article. Why the hell would you bash a 57 year-old women chaperoning 37 children as being stupid for forgetting a butter knife in her purse? That’s not called stupidity, that’s called forgetfulness. Everyone does it and for the TSA to throw reason to the wind is criminal. Butter knifes are not bombs

“She WAS breaking the law, and there IS a $500 fine. The fine is almost NEVER enforced unless someone gets violent or is scaring other passengers.”
Comment by Jackson 06.18.07 @ 11:06 am

Breaking the law? Good one. Laws aren’t moral dictates and are often completely unconstitutional. How is she supposed to KNOW that she would not be fined $500 dollars given the fact that TSA TOLD her she WOULD have to pay. If I am scaring/offending other passengers, that doesn’t give the government or other citizens the authority to take possession of another person’s property or harass them with the intent of criminal punishment. Those other passengers are not guaranteed any rights protecting them from being scared, which is analogous to being offended. Your sentiments, emotions and fears are your own just like your religious or moral beliefs.

That is precisely why we have rights guaranteed to us by the Constitution. Go ahead and name call her all you want but the fact is that being unreasonable in this situation doesn’t make you right; it makes you stupid.

P.S.: If I’ve said something you think is stupid, please! PLEASE! point it out. Maybe a little more humility is all Americans need to sit down and talk about the issues.

@Chris from 06.19.07

Almost everyone knows that knives are not allowed on airplanes. The woman who had the knife in her carry-on luggage knew that. Your missing the point which is that she did not intentionally bring the knife on to the plane. Yes, everyone who brings a knife onto the plane with their carry-on is going to say it was an accident. Yes, the security screener is initially not going to be able to tell the difference. That is why people, or government agencies, do not, or should not, jump to conclusions and deem everyone who claims to unintentionally bring a knife on a plane as a terrorist. It’s like saying your guilty until proven innocent.

No one is letting her bring a knife on the plane anyhow. She didn’t expect to be able to either. It was an accident. Yeah, those rules are in place for a reason but that doesn’t automatically make it a valid one in the first place. You shouldn’t be so eager to follow the rules from the government and fall in line like little PEEPs. You know, those little marshmallow birds. Some of you conservatives might cringe at the thought of someone repeating the following oft-quoted piece of wisdom: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” One of you might have had a heart attack but I would have to agree with Ben Franklin on this one.

What happened to U.S. History and Gov 101? No, the government is not here to protect all of us from people’s stupidity or ignorance. Nothing in the world can protect you from that. That is just a completely dumb idea. I would feel safer on the plane with the lady who had the knife and 37 children returning from Disneyland than someone who espouses the same shit that comes out of your as…mouth hole.

et again, I still fail to see why some of you think she is stupid. And even if she did have a lower IQ, some mental deficiency in intelligence or a lapse in judgment doesn’t make the situation any more valid. As you said, “…the majority of the population of the world is STUPID.” That includes you, Chris. God forbid this happens to someone with similar sentiments to yours.

When you have been unemployed ( ….ployable)and an IQ that will not come close to 3 digits,are offered £5 an hour, a uniform complete with jackboots,trained to search people who are going/returning from holiday !?**
What the hell do you EXPECT!

This woman’s experience is unfortunate, and while the (obviously) non-legal personnel at the airport did not state the law with sufficient precision, the essence of what she was told was correct and non-controversial. [Their tone and manner of conveying information to her is, of course, another matter.]

[In the interest of brevity and comprehensibility, I'm going to simplify a bit, but the jurisprudential principles set forth below are the law, and have been the law for a long time.]

The Constitution provides the following protections for those accused of having committed a crime: Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure (except upon probable cause), public trial by a jury with the right to counsel after indictment by a grand jury, and procedural due process of law.

A limited search of air passengers, particularly a search for large masses of metal that could be weapons, is unlikely to be seen by any court - or any reasonable citizen - as unreasonable. It is a crime to attempt to bring a weapon onto an a commercial aircraft.

Security personnel confiscated a “knife” (that, as a practical matter, might not be a weapon) from a passenger, told the passenger that she had violated the law (well, maybe, but that’s for a court to decide) and that, as a consequence, the passenger “would” be fined and “would” be deemed a terrorist (again, maybe, if she’s convicted).

The passenger - probably upset as much by the manner of the security staff as the substance of what they said - asked about her “rights.” They said she didn’t have any. They’re right.

All of the paperwork generated by the security personnel is exempt from disclosure to the accused as it is comprised of records generated in the course of a criminal (or, perhaps, administrative or even civil) investigation. A traffic cop does not have to give you a copy of a “ticket.” What the officer is giving you is a summons to appear in court on a specific day and time to answer certain charges. As a practical matter, it makes sense for the cop to show the charge on the summons, even though as a theoretical matter he does not have to do so.

When the actual or potential charges are more serious - as is the case here - the decision of what charge to bring, if any at all, will be made later by a Deputy U.S. Attorney after he has reviewed the “evidence” (the knife and the documents generated by the security personnel). Until and unless the U.S. Attorney’s office convenes a grand jury or (more probably) proceeds on the basis of an “information” in lieu of a grand jury (a savings to the taxpayers and a method of minimizing exposure and expense of the accused who will not be the subject of a formal indictment), there is no case. She’s not been accused of anything, so she has no rights to protect. She was the subject of a lawful search under the Fourth Amendment and certain evidence of a potential crime was confiscated (the knife).

[An alternative view of the state's right to confiscate the knife is based on civil forfeiture. Any item used in the commission of a crime can be seized upon a very minimal showing (that is, it is more probable than not that the item was used in commission of a crime). Interestingly, the government can keep items seized by exercise of the right of civil forfeiture even if they never proceed with a criminal prosecution. In some cases - a 21 year old young man with no visible means of support is apprehended driving a $90 thousand automobile he purchased for cash, and the $50 thousand in spare change he has with him tests positive for cocaine. The problem is that most U.S. $100 bills test positive for drugs, so, without more, the government may not be able to convict this young entrepreneur for drug dealing (although he's likely guilty). They will, however, forfeit the car and the cash. Forfeiture is the basis for those full page ads in the newspaper listing stuff the government has seized. You can get your stuff back by proving that your possession was - more probably than not - innocent. Of course, that's a civil proceeding. You're not likely to get your stuff back if you take the Fifth, and if you testify anything you say can be used against you.]

This is probably much ado about nothing. It is likely that the U.S. Attorney will investigate the matter, confirm that this woman is who she said she was, had no criminal intent to commit a terrorist act, and - at worst - is guilty of no more than a “strict liability” offense for attempting to bring a “weapon” onto an aircraft. The U.S. Attorney has better things to do, so the case will probably not be pursued or administratively disposed of.

The security staff should have handled this very differently. [And, to be fair to them, they may have. The woman's account is what she remembered hearing them say. What they actually said may have been different.] In any event, security should say: “Ms. Smith, this item (the knife) is potentially a weapon and, by attempting to bring it on an aircraft, you may have committed a crime for which, if convicted, you could be fined and subject to future inconvenience in air travel. We will submit the knife with our report to the proper authorities and they will be in touch with you.”

Frankly, civil forfeiture - which has resulted in innumerable, innocent lessors of aircraft, watercraft and automobiles in the Southern U.S., particularly Florida, losing possession of their valuable property because the lessees employed these leased transport vehicles for drug dealing - is a much more serious issue.

[...] How long until you have to go through the airport naked? [...]

“As much as I sympathize with Mrs. Beaman, I don’t think that the situation requires such an overdose of rhetoric. All drama aside, flying is a privilege that is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution … they were forward thinkers, just not that forward. - Hap Chandlwr”

It’s called the 9th amendment. It guarantees that all liberties not SPECIFICALLY laid out in the Constitution belong to the People.

They knew things would change. They also knew that governing authorities would attempt to use change as an excuse for imposing new restrictions.

We do so much in the name of security..but go to the CDC website. Did you know that less than 1% of our population dies every year…from ALL causes?

It was approximately 0.79% in 2004 and 0.83% in 2005. That includes EVERY possible manner in which a person could die. INCLUDING criminal activity that resulted in death.

Is there a reason that we’re supposed to act like sheep in order to protect the minority DEAD rather than acting like Americans in order to protect the freedoms of the MAJORITY who are still alive?

Did you know that of that 0.8% 2/3rds are over the age of 65? Did you know that the 7 leading causes of death are all health related? Heart disease, cancer, stroke, lung ailments, diabetes,Alzheimer’s and flu. Then FINALLY 8th on the list..auto accidents. Homicide is around the 17th on the list..and the odds are approximately 17,000 to 1 against it. You have similar odds of being awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

So why do we give up rights for this? What sense does that make? Why do we talk about anyone PROTECTING US? It’s inevitable in a nation of 300 Million that some folks are going to meet with untimely fates. Especially in a free society.

Interestingly enough cops, who we allow to search our pockets and cars for “the safety of the officer” are 4 times more likely to be struck by lightning in this country than to be killed in the line of duty. In 2006, only 75 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty. Only thirty of those were shot. The majority of the rest died in traffic fatalities. Those 75 officers constitute only 0.0025% of our population. And yet 99.9975% of the rest of us are told we must surrender our Constitutional right to protection against searches without a warrant…to protect this infinitesimally small group of people.

Where is the sense in any of this?

We need to start by simply refusing to pay ANYTHING to Washington. It’s not an easy thing to enact..but it’s the only sensible thing to do besides armed revolt.

If anyone wants to talk..my name is dafremen on soulseek.

Email address: dafremen@gmail.com or dafremen@hotmail.com..take your pick.

Perhaps it is nearing the time of the second Revolution.

This all comes about when a county’s citizens get lazy and do nothing to protect the Constitution or the Bill of Rights… “Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.” -Alexander Hamilton

We as a country tried bringing impeachment processes againt Clinton for dening sexual actions, but refuse to have the guts to impeach Bush for lying to the People and violating his oath of office to defend the Constitution. WAKE UP AMERICA! Our country is being sold to the highest bidder and our rights are being stolen from us! How much more will Americans put up with?

The media talks about patriotism during the elections, but do we truely know what patriotism is? “Patriotism is easy to understand in America. It means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country.” -Calvin Coolidge

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.” -Thomas Jefferson

In closing, pay attention America…we are losing our country…”They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” -Benjamin Franklin

Do we really need to fly this much? It’s becoming truly Orwellian and nearly Kafkaesque. If a fraction of us refused to fly, the airlines would go belly up, and then the TSA would become the paper tiger they actually are. Stop drinking the damn kool-aid, wake up, and fight this, before it’s too late.

I have no problem with what TSA did! Why, because that is what we need them to do.

Now, if you only take her side, and she gets to say what she claims “they” said, and gets to portray her actions in her best light, and then YOU believe it really went exactly like that, because, after all, it was in the press, then YOU are the stupid one.

I am totally surprised by Mr. Beaman saying….
“You’ve committed a felony,” Beaman says a security screener announced. “And you’re considered a terrorist.”
Beaman says she was told her name would go on a terrorist watch-list and that she would have to pay a $500 fine.

DES MOINES - Cecilia Beaman is a 57-year-old grandmother, a principal at Pacific Middle School in Des Moines, and as of Sunday is also a suspected terrorist.
This past weekend she and several other chaperones took 37 middle school students to a Heritage Festival band competition in California. The trip included two days at Disneyland.
During the stay she made sandwiches for the kids and was careful to pack the knives she used to prepare those sandwiches in her checked luggage. She says she even alerted security screeners that the knives were in her checked bags and they told her that was OK.
But Beaman says she couldn’t find a third knife. It was a 5 1/2 inch bread knife with a rounded tip and a serrated edge. She thought she might have lost or misplaced it during the trip.

“DES MOINES - Cecilia Beaman is a 57-year-old grandmother, a principal at Pacific Middle School in Des Moines, and as of Sunday is also a suspected terrorist.”

But who have still with them ? This is really questioning me.

“You’ve committed a felony,” Beaman says a security screener announced. “And you’re considered a terrorist.”
Beaman says she was told her name would go on a terrorist watch-list and that she would have to pay a $500 fine.

I think Beaman is right……but what about terrorsit is done if payed $500 fine ?

WAKE UP AMERICA! Beaman is right. This is really right saying : “Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.” -Alexander Hamilton
If you are a terrorist, you don’t have any constitutional rights. Aren’t those the new rules you voted for?“Patriotism is easy to understand in America. It means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country.” -Calvin Coolidge

Isn’t every thing is right. what matter is terrorist ?

I thought if they found a prohibited item, you had the options of surrendering it and continuing through screening, or leaving.

I keep hearing about outrageous airport stories in the media. I think TSA should have just confiscated the knife but not give Cecilia Beaman such a hard time. Is Cecilia going to take any legal action against the airport? I never thought about those x-ray machines that they use at the airport. Can the machines see any body parts?

Who needs to bring a weapon on board a plane? Didn’t some talk show host back in 2002 mention that any idiot could make a shank out of a piece of a soda can? Oh wait what about the plastic fork that comes with the in flight meal? Get yourself a straw or wrap up a piece of paper a couple of green peas as wads break off the tips of the forks maybe sharpen them a bit against the brushed stainless steel in the bathrooms on the planes and you got blow darts. Or perhaps any piece of cast metal inside the plane that you can kick and bust loose has the potential of being used as a deadly weapon because of sharp jagged edges. well happy flying motherfuckers, I’ll take the train

this reminds me of the little middle aged french lady who attempted to visit the midwest USA. At the Evansville Indiana terminal,her wired bra kept setting off the metal detecter I imagine she was tired, suffering from jet lag etc so she pulls up her blouse takes off her bra and throws it at them I think, saying as she does ” are you people happy now?” She was taken to jail and deported.What a country huh?

you might not know it but like Vienna, US has similar situation.
I was helpfully escorted to the security office and told I could pay 10 Euro’s and they would send the knife to me by post .. they even said “its a nice knife, you probably want it back, here’s how you do that” .. and 3 days after my trip, it arrived safely in the mail.
There are kiosks right outside the checkpoint for you to mail your items…you can check it in to checkin baggage, give the item to someone who is not flying, take it out of the checkpoint and do what you want with it if you do not trust the TSA, give it away….
Yes, we DO throw the items OUT…YES there are SOME who steal them…personally, they aren’t worth my Job…
We have lock boxes for the knives and liquids to use so we do not have the temptation…and only the people who empty the garbage have the key…

We do not confiscate: you can leave it at the checkpoint, cuz it isn’t going to go past it, mail it check it in, give it away…the exception to this is Guns, Bullets, etc. in which the Police are called.
No, btw, she isn’t on any watch list…there are too many people of stupidity who bring pocket knives, butter knives to watch, or bother with.